Team strategy, line strategies, lines trios, def duos and PP.

This area should be used by GMs from different leagues to share their experiences about things such as line combinations, which skills are good etc. / Ce forum devrait être utilisé par les DG de diffèrentes ligues pour partager leur expèrience à propos des combinaisons alignement, quel sont les attributs d'un joueurs les plus utilises etc.
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Peeps
New in Town / Le Ptit Nouveau
Posts: 30
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:20 pm

Team strategy, line strategies, lines trios, def duos and PP.

Post by Peeps »

Hi every1. I wanted GM's opinion on my team, as i'm currently trying to win the championship in my STHS league.

I have a loaded offense, a good defense, and two number 1 goalies.

I wanted your opinion on these subjects:

Team wide strategy, line strategies, lines trios, def duos and PP.

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Team wide strategy
I believe any hockey team in STHS needs a PHY presence to win over and over again. So I always put a point in the PHY categorie no matter if i'm losing or winning.

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I have 9 forwards and 4 defensmen that check in my 12f 6d line up.

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I read a lot of questions and answers here, and I believe it's better to have the PHY in the Wide Strategy instead of lines, because line are created base on the style of players you mix in one line. So a line of Kucherov, Stamkos and Point would be a 0-1-4 or 0-2-3. A line of Ovy, Backstrom and Wilson would be 1-1-3 or 1-2-2. One don't check at all and focus on offense. They other is offensive aswell, but brings checking by 2 players out of 3.

Because I play 1-1-3 if it's even, down by 1 and 2, am I missing an opportunity to put 4 OF ? I wouldn't put 1-0-4, because then the wide strategy doesn't include DF. I believe 1 is the minimum.

The PHY is important because it kills play in your own zone, can injured players and create turnovers for you. That's why I'm big on PHY.

I also know that Wide Strategy + line strategies combine to create a strategy of 10 points. So here's my lines.

Lines

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Peeps
New in Town / Le Ptit Nouveau
Posts: 30
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:20 pm

Re: Team strategy, line strategies, lines trios, def duos and PP.

Post by Peeps »

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So I came up with these lines because I tried as much as possible to follow what the manual says.

The decision is based on 5 skills:

Skating (Primary) and Puck Handling (Limited affect) are uses to decide if the players skate.
Passing (Primary) and Defense (Limited affect) are uses to decide if the players pass.
Scoring (Primary) is uses to decide if the player shot.

So, a players with 99 in the 5 skills has the same % of chance to shot to the net that a player who has 50 in the 50 skills.


I then constructed a graph to know which players was best and worst in the 3 main skills (SC, PA and SK). I added CK, because like you know by now, I believe it is crutial in winning. My strategy then consist on mixing guys primary skills on one line + always putting at minimum one player that checks well. Checking well for me is a skill of at least 70+. Around 70, if the player is tall and heavy it helps. I am more confident in a 6'3'' 225lbs 70 CK than a 5'10'' 175lbs 70 CK.

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So it gave me this:

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Peeps
New in Town / Le Ptit Nouveau
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Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:20 pm

Re: Team strategy, line strategies, lines trios, def duos and PP.

Post by Peeps »

1st line: Jeff Carter is my best player. 81 OV. He takes a lot of shot. He is PPG. As you can see on the graph, he has the best SC and PA. He can play C and RW. I have Stepan and Kopitar at center only, so I prefer him on the wing, with the SC. He will be the SC on this line.

Stepan is a very good top 6 center. I put him there so he can benefit from Carter. That's the main reason he's on the first line. To create 3 amazing potential 1st line on my team. He's a 76 OV. Good SC and PA. He will be the PA on this line.

Meier is a rookie and he's well rounded for a rookie. For me he's a STHS' GM dream player. Big, strong, fast and good everywhere. He's a 74 OV. I put him there to complement the duo of Stepan and Carter. He is also my CK player on this line. By default, he will be my SK on this line.

My concern on this line, is that they all skate well. 85, 84 and 83. So Maybe Meier's impact will only be CK.

My view on it is that, Carter's SC is 89 and will outperform Stepan's 81 and Meier's 80. He then win the SC on the line.

Because Carter is the SC, it then becomes a battle between Meier and Stepan for the PA. Stepan win with 87 ov 80.

So Meier becomes the SK. He also CK on the line.

They all have 70 CK (Carter 69, but tall and heavy), so I believe that a 1-2-2 line was ideal. A very good offensive line, that will attack very well, defend well (69,70,77) and CK. I also think it's good to have at least one line like that in your line that can do it all.

It is also a question I was asking myself. If I put them on a 0-1-4 or a 0-2-3 line, without having no 1-2-2 line in my line up, would it be a good idea? That would gave me 3x big offensive line. I'd like to know what you think about that. For me, I put 1-2-2, because it's what these 3 players give me as a strategy. Maybe a 1-1-3? Because I don't know if 3x line of 0-2-3 is good. Or one line of 0-1-4 and two of 0-2-3 i'm not sure. I believe two lines of 0-2-3 and one 1-2-2 is good for the balance. You don't want all your team to do the same.

2nd line: Last year I had that same line as my 1st line, but with Kopitar as the center. The strategy was the same. Kopitar 83pts, Novotny 69pts and Couture 53pts. So because I want to put Kopitar with my worst top 9 forward (Pettersson), I put Bouchard this year. I believe it should work.

Bouchard and Novotny are good skaters but not as good as Couture. 79 and 80 for them, while Couture is a 86. So Couture is the SK.

Bouchard is the best PA with 89. So Bouchard is the PA.

Novotny then becomes the SC. He is also the CK.

3rd line: Kopitar is my best player with Carter. I consider them equal. I don't want them on the same line, except on PP. Because I have two good rookies this year, I wanted to put them with Carter and Kopitar. So Kopitar is on the 3rd line, and I believe it's unreal to have such a superstar on the 3rd line. But it's the luxury I have this year, and that's why I believe I can win the cup this year.

Kopitar is mainly there to be paired with Pettersson, my worst Top 9 forward. (59 CK, 66 ST, 63 DF and is listed as 6'2'' 176lbs) So from what I know from the STHS, is that he is tall but skinny. Don't check at all, have a bad defense skill and bad ST. You combine all of that, and he will create turnover often, get check often, lose puck battle, may get injured etc. Not fun. But I'm no fool lol, Pettersson is a franchise player. I love him 100%. It's just that as a coach right now, I need to find him a perfect situation so he can strive. Right now, he is not good to play center (76FO) and is still slim. So I prefer to have him on a line with two mastodon that can check and produce offense. That's why he is with Lupul and Kopitar.

Also I believe that yes Lupul (77OV) and Kopitar (79OV) could easily be in my Top 6, instead of Meier and Couture/Stepan, but like I said, I was able to have this wonderful Top 9 for a championship and I believe it's more important to have 3 big offensive lines than 2 big lines and one good line.

So Kopitar is my best PA and the center, so he will be the PA.

Pettersson is my best SK, so he will be the SK.

Lupul then becomes the SC. He is also the CK.

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So I tried to explain my thinking the best I could here. I'd like to know if you would have others ideas for potential line with strategy. I am curious. Right now I like these lines and strategy and I don't see why it shouldn't be working. Thank you.

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For the defense I am more comfortable with my duos. I feel it's easier since it's 6 players instead of 9, and it's combos not trios.

I still try to follow the manual for this one. I like to put the classic, one offensive d-man and one 2-way or defensive d-man.

1st pair: Brodie is my go to guy for offense from the back end. He's coming back from a 68pts season. 75SC, 87PA, 80PH and 87 DF. For me he's more than a offensive d-man. He's more of a dynamic 2-way d-man. He's not big, doesn't have the best ST with 68 and 50 CK. But all of this is ok because he produce points year in, year out. I'm ok with it. I pair him for that reason with Esa Lindell. Lindell is all that Brodie is not in the CK, ST and size. I feel it's a really powerfull combo. Lindell is also 90DF.

So Brodie is my SC, PA guy on this duo.

Lindell is my SK, CK and DF guy.

2nd pair: Staal's spot. Same thing as Kopitar and Carter. I don't want them on the same duo (Brodie). I want them to benefit other player. So Staal is as strong as Kopitar and Carter in term of OV. He's also the leader of this team with Kopitar ''C'' and Carter ''A''.

Staal is complete. He can do it all. CK, SK, ST, PH, SC, PA, DF, LD and EX. I pair him with my lowest D, Maatta a 72 OV. Maatta produced 34pts last season. So he can be good. Maatta is a low 70 in the SC PA DF. But a better skater than Staal. He also has a very good ST with 81. So he will block shot. I believe it boost it's DF. He has a good size also.

So Staal is the SC PA DF CK guy in this duo.

Maatta is the SK.

3rd pair: I got Orlov there, a 80 DF, 75 CK, and very heavy size. I pair him with Werenski, my best skater. Werenski is also better than Orlov in the SC PA.

So Orlov is the DF CK.

Werenski is the SC PA and SK.

My strategy is 0-3-2 for the first duo, 1-2-2 for the 2nd and 3rd.

I want them to attack and defend the same. Also want them to check. Be a complete pair. I remove the 1pt CK from the 1st duo, because Brodie is small and has 50CK. It wouldn't benefit him. The Wide Strategy already gave him 1pt anyway. They can focus on shutting down the top line I guess 40% of the time.

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Now my PP.

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I want to put my best SK SC PA on the same line.

My best SK is Pettersson, my best SC is Carter and then the best PA is Kopitar (Kopitar 90, Carter 91). I feel that's the way to do on the PP?

Then the duo on the blue line is Brodie and Werenski. Brodie is my best offensive d-man, but has 81 SK, so I pair him with another good offensive d-man, but with 90 SK.

Brodie is the SC PA and Werenski is the SK.

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Same concept for the 2nd PP.

I did this for one game, and got 1 for 8 on the PP. I feel another goal would have been nice, but at least a goal is good. But I lost the game. So not good.

Should I put the d-man on the same strategy as my forward? 0-0-5 for all ? Or put everyone on 0-1-4? Or stay put?

Should I insert Novotny or Lupul on the 1st unit to CK? Roll on 4F and 1D ?

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My record is 1-3-2. I believe it's not acceptable with the team I have. I put this line up for one game so far and lost 3-2 against a team that shouldn't do the playoff. That's why I came here. I feel I did all the right thing, as building the best team possible under a 70M cap, understand the manual as best as I can, try to match players with the SC PA SK theory and adjusting strategy for them.

If you see something that you feel I do wrong, please don't hesitate to write something. It could help not only me, but a lot of GM that has the same problem as me. I see some post here that goes above 1000+ views. So a lot of GM come here. It could become a post that could be a general helper for everyone!

Thanks in advance.

Aussi, je suis francophone, mais je voulais faire le poste en anglais pcq c'est plus simple. N'hésitez pas à répondre en français ;-)
Savard
The Accomplished One / L'Accompli
Posts: 106
Joined: Fri May 24, 2019 1:07 am

Re: Team strategy, line strategies, lines trios, def duos and PP.

Post by Savard »

Thank you for this lengthy post! Very interesting thoughts! Unfortunately I don’t have much insight to offer, since I spent the last months investigating the 2.1 engine and proper ratings for the engine. But I think I will incorporate your ideas into my teams next season and maybe I can give feedback then!

Maybe someone else has ideas too?
Peeps
New in Town / Le Ptit Nouveau
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Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:20 pm

Re: Team strategy, line strategies, lines trios, def duos and PP.

Post by Peeps »

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:mrgreen:
jroenick2797
New in Town / Le Ptit Nouveau
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:20 am

Re: Team strategy, line strategies, lines trios, def duos and PP.

Post by jroenick2797 »

Peeps wrote: Sun Jul 04, 2021 9:11 pm Image

:mrgreen:
Congrats on the win! Care to share what the successful strategies were in line building?

We use 1.5 and my team is coming off a 113-point season. Had an 11-1 start but currently mired in an awful 2-12 slump being outshot 2:1 every game.

Overall, my team is a top 5 team. The big problems are offense where we rank in the bottom 5 after being #1 last season, as well as both special teams being dead last.

I'd say the strengths of the team are the SC and DF ratings overall, with a good amount of CK and ST too. We've got a top 5 G in the league too. This should all result in a much better team than .500 I think.

I am out of ideas so any insight would be greatly appreciated :-)
Peeps
New in Town / Le Ptit Nouveau
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Re: Team strategy, line strategies, lines trios, def duos and PP.

Post by Peeps »

Yes sure, I'll try to help with what I know!

So first off, I need to thank someone I talked to via private message here. He's the one who opened my eyes about how simple the STHS is.

Here we go:

1) Salary Cap
If you feel you have a team that can win the chip, go all in or go home.

Load your salaries. Go to the upper limit. Don't leave a space.

If you are serious about winning, your cap should be just before the limit. That would mean that you have multiple star players.

Also, if you can have young star player with ELC, it's a really amazing advantage to have. I won with E.Pettersson at 925K with great stats.

2) Retain salary
When you trade with other teams, make them retain salary. Always stride for 50%. In my league, we had a maximum of 5M per year. The year I won, I was right on the limit.

It's a great tool to have.

3) Great players, make great teams
I think this one is easy to understand, but still, some GM would forget about it. The more players that are great, the more chance of winning for you.

I would suggest to a variety of players. Speedster, playmaker, goal scorer, checker, 2-way and shutdown. Same for defense. Off D, 2-way and shutdown.

4) Number one goalie
You can't win without a true number one goalie. Invest in one. You don't need the best goalie in your league, but at least one in the top 15. If your team is really strong, it'll be more easy for him. Strong goalie + strong team is a great combo.

Also, make him play the most game you can. In my league it's 70 games maximum. So that's what I did last year with mine. My backup was league minimum and not a legit number 2.

5) Season means testing
The season I won, I did some line change all 82 games. I was even doing it during the first half of the post season. You really need to find what works and what doesn't.

6) Home vs away
You control the line change when you play home. Take advantage of it. You can create a deadly top 6 to abuse the other team. When you play away, you don't get the line advantage. You should play 3 balanced line.

I'm still conflicted with this one, because I'm a 3 lines guy. But in the end, if you have 9 really good players, you won't stress about it, because you'll always have 3 really good line :). If you have 7 or 8 good players, you'll need to try stuff.

7) 4th line is useless
Your 4th line is worth nothing. Pay them the minimum salary in your league. Play them 5% each game. Don't use them anywhere else than on your 4th line.

8 ) Focus on your top 9 + top 4
You should have at least 7 players that can fit the role of a top 6. I would suggest 3x top 6 center, so you can spread them out on 3 different line. Then you'd have at least 4x top 6 winger. If the 2 other remaining winger can be middle 6, it's good, but if you can trade and retain salary for top 6, it's better. Be creative. ELC players here are useful.

For the defence, at least a legit top 4. I'd suggest spreading 3x top 4 def on 3 duos. Your best d-man on the 1st line with a top 6 d, the 2nd pair, 2x top 4, and the 3rd pair, 1x top 4 and 1x top 6. If you can get more top 4, the better. Remember, ELC or trade/retain.

9) Strat + % time
1st, 2nd and 3rd line always 30 %+. Remember, 5% on the 4th line. You don't need it.

On defence, I'd suggest, 35/35/30. The 4th pair put 2 top 4 with 0%.

PP should be 50-50 60-40 or 65-35. PK would be 50-50 or 60-40.

For the strat, I'd suggest always 0-1-4 and 0-2-3 for your top 9. You can also use 1-2-2, as a default strat, because sometimes they just work. I stop using PHY points in my strat, because the player will check anyway. The goal is to score goal. So with 3 or 4 in OFF, you'll achieve that. If you spend a point in PHY, you lose points for the OFF.

If your 3 forwards on one line have good DF stat, it might be a good idea to put 0-2-3. Same if your 3 forwards have great SK PH SC PA on one line, might be good to try 0-1-4.

If you have a good mix of everything, you can try 1-2-2.

For defence, I'd suggest 0-3-2. You want them to be active for your attack, but be responsible also. I feel 3-2 give me that.

On the PP, ALWAYS 0-0-5 or 0-1-4. Nothing else. You are on the attack with your best players. It's ALL IN.

I'd suggest the 0-0-5. For forward and defence.

On the PK I do use 1 PHY point. I'd suggest 1-4-0. For attack and defence.

You can create turnover for your team by checking them.

For the Team Wide Strategy, I'd suggest the same thing as for the forward strat.

0-2-3 and 0-1-4. Also 1-2-2 is an option. Test, test and test!! :D

10) The formula
To create trios and duos, always think of the STHS formula.

SK + PA + SC.

You always want a high PA as your center.
You always want a high SC as your winger.
You always want a high SK as your other winger.

Capice?

They will work together and share their skill. They will work within the formula to create goals.

ALSO!!

I'd suggest having AT LEAST one winger with a high CK. So you can have him check a lot and create turnover for your line. He should never be the center, because center get hits a lot.

For defence I try to match one off d-man with either a 2-way of shutdown.

I also try to match the SK. If my off d-man have a good SK, the other one can have a bad one. But the bad one, need at least a really good DF.

They need to complete each other. As much as your off lines.

On the PP, max out with your best players, but try to respect the formula. SK PA SC. Don't put 3 SC on the same line. Waste of time.

On the PK, SK, PA and DF are king.

Try to put your player with the best DF and SK. Forward and defence.

Ultimately, the SK is the most important stat for me. If you can skate, you can create something. It's also a primary stat. Then PH is also very important to generate offence. You should strive to acquire players with good SK and PH all the time. Then on offense you want your center with high PA. You want your winger with high SC, SK and CK.

On defence, you want them with high DF and CK.

You always want at least one d-man that has a high CK on a duo. Technically, one off d-man with the SK PH PA SC and one d-man with CK ST SK PA DF.

11) Scout
Watch what other team do in your league. Examine the winners but also the loosers. Always refer to the formula when analysing. Watch the GM that sims the game. Since he has access to the sim software, he might knows more stuff than us.

12) Draft picks
I didn't draft for three straight draft now. Not one single player. I went all in on my team, always trading for players. If you really believe you can win, sacrifice your picks for great player.

If it's time to rebuild, go all in and trade everything you can and accumulate as much pick as possible. Keep your young core.

It's either one or the other. There's no reset or in between. All in for the cup or all in for a rebuild.

13) Leadership and experience
Don't be affraid to acquire older player. LD and EX will help your team down the stretch. They are important for winning and morale. They will keep your team straight. More stability.

14) Recap

- At least 7x top 6 players spread throught 3 lines. (At least 3 top 6 centers)
- 4th line 5%
- At least 4x top 4 players spread throught 3 duos
- Legit number 1 goalie
- Max out your salary cap
- Trade for great players and make them retain salary
- Get good ELC players
- Always be testing during the season
- 0-2-3 and 0-1-4 works best to score goal and win for offence. 0-3-2 for defence
- You don't need the PHY point. Except on the PK
- Always build your team and then your lines with the formula (SK+PA+SC)
- Don't forget at least one CK player on each line and duo.
- Minimum salary for 4th liners, 13th forward, 7th def and 2nd goalie. You want to max out the top 9 + top 6 + number 1 goalie
- Acquire leadership and experience players
- Scout the other teams and their games
- All in for the chip or all in for the rebuild. No in between. Don't be affraid to trade your pick for great players.
- The more great players you can have in your team, stronger your team will be by default. You still need to manage that team thought. Formula.

15) Last word
That might not be the holy grail, but it's what I know and that's what I applied to win. Obviously, that's my point of view so I might be bias with that information. At the end of the day, you need great players, offensive strat and luck. I've won 3x game 7, including 2 OT. I joined my league in Dec 2014 and never missed the post season since 2016.

With that said, I wish you good luck and feel free to come back to this thread and discuss some more!
yohann71
New in Town / Le Ptit Nouveau
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:33 am

Re: Team strategy, line strategies, lines trios, def duos and PP.

Post by yohann71 »

I posted yesterday but did not see yours before. It's really detailed, impressive job.

Could you please share the stats on PP and PK you generated with this strategy?
Thanks!
Peeps
New in Town / Le Ptit Nouveau
Posts: 30
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:20 pm

Re: Team strategy, line strategies, lines trios, def duos and PP.

Post by Peeps »

Image
yohann71
New in Town / Le Ptit Nouveau
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:33 am

Re: Team strategy, line strategies, lines trios, def duos and PP.

Post by yohann71 »

Thanks a lot. It really paid off it seems looking at your AN/DN
jroenick2797
New in Town / Le Ptit Nouveau
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:20 am

Re: Team strategy, line strategies, lines trios, def duos and PP.

Post by jroenick2797 »

Thanks very much for your detailed response!

I'll be trying all these strategies in the coming games; I even made a trade recently to ensure I had all the necessary pieces in place. Got a solid top 9, good CK on every line, balance, a deep defense with good DF and one of the better goalies in the league.

After a 113-point season (and disappointing 1st round exit), this year has been a bit of a disaster so I'm looking for answers, especially on the PP and PK where im basically the worst special teams in the league. Started 11-1 but have inexplicably gone 5-12-3 since. I have a top 5 team overall with no real gaping holes to speak of, so I feel like it's a question of finding what works.

If you're curious, this is our league and I'm the Avalanche.

http://www.lnvhv.com/simulations/LNVHV- ... Avalanches
thadthrasher
New in Town / Le Ptit Nouveau
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Re: Team strategy, line strategies, lines trios, def duos and PP.

Post by thadthrasher »

Peeps, what version are you using?
jroenick2797
New in Town / Le Ptit Nouveau
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:20 am

Re: Team strategy, line strategies, lines trios, def duos and PP.

Post by jroenick2797 »

jroenick2797 wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:00 pm Thanks very much for your detailed response!

I'll be trying all these strategies in the coming games; I even made a trade recently to ensure I had all the necessary pieces in place. Got a solid top 9, good CK on every line, balance, a deep defense with good DF and one of the better goalies in the league.

After a 113-point season (and disappointing 1st round exit), this year has been a bit of a disaster so I'm looking for answers, especially on the PP and PK where im basically the worst special teams in the league. Started 11-1 but have inexplicably gone 5-12-3 since. I have a top 5 team overall with no real gaping holes to speak of, so I feel like it's a question of finding what works.

If you're curious, this is our league and I'm the Avalanche.

http://www.lnvhv.com/simulations/LNVHV- ... Avalanches
Early returns are good:
3 games, 3 wins. 3-2, 6-2 and 4-2
PP is 2 for 10
PK is 9 of 10
Top line has combined for 5 goals, 11 assists

Thanks for helping to get my team out of its funk! Hopefully we can keep it rolling.
Peeps
New in Town / Le Ptit Nouveau
Posts: 30
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:20 pm

Re: Team strategy, line strategies, lines trios, def duos and PP.

Post by Peeps »

thadthrasher wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:44 pm Peeps, what version are you using?
1.5
jroenick2797
New in Town / Le Ptit Nouveau
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:20 am

Re: Team strategy, line strategies, lines trios, def duos and PP.

Post by jroenick2797 »

jroenick2797 wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:29 pm
jroenick2797 wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:00 pm Thanks very much for your detailed response!

I'll be trying all these strategies in the coming games; I even made a trade recently to ensure I had all the necessary pieces in place. Got a solid top 9, good CK on every line, balance, a deep defense with good DF and one of the better goalies in the league.

After a 113-point season (and disappointing 1st round exit), this year has been a bit of a disaster so I'm looking for answers, especially on the PP and PK where im basically the worst special teams in the league. Started 11-1 but have inexplicably gone 5-12-3 since. I have a top 5 team overall with no real gaping holes to speak of, so I feel like it's a question of finding what works.

If you're curious, this is our league and I'm the Avalanche.

http://www.lnvhv.com/simulations/LNVHV- ... Avalanches
Early returns are good:
3 games, 3 wins. 3-2, 6-2 and 4-2
PP is 2 for 10
PK is 9 of 10
Top line has combined for 5 goals, 11 assists

Thanks for helping to get my team out of its funk! Hopefully we can keep it rolling.

Thought I'd provide an update... Lost in 6 in the Stanley Cup final after blowing a 2-0 series lead and a 4-2 lead in game 6. Just awful way to go, but the tips seemed to be pretty effective.
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