Tips for engine 2.0

This area should be used by GMs from different leagues to share their experiences about things such as line combinations, which skills are good etc. / Ce forum devrait être utilisé par les DG de diffèrentes ligues pour partager leur expèrience à propos des combinaisons alignement, quel sont les attributs d'un joueurs les plus utilises etc.
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Jaybee48
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Tips for engine 2.0

Post by Jaybee48 »

Been in leagues with engine 1.5, and 2.1. Anyone has tips for engine 2.0? Thanks
Dale Hunter
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Re: Tips for engine 2.0

Post by Dale Hunter »

I am always willing to talk about 1.5. Shot me your questions or thoughts on 1.5 and will respond.
BeardCommish
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Re: Tips for engine 2.0

Post by BeardCommish »

2.0, to me, is the best engine of this simulator. It gets a somewhat bad rap due to some "randomness", but I find it's the most realistic engine to real-life of the engines available.

1.5 wasn't bad, but 2.0 is better. 2.1 seems to be too geared toward the best teams and best players always being the best.

2.0, again in my experience, puts the onus more on building the best team vs building a roster of the best players. There are always a few surprises, which is realistic to real life.

I'm sure others have plenty of strong thoughts either way lol. But in my experience, 2.0 is the way to go. :)
Marc the Habs Fan
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Re: Tips for engine 2.0

Post by Marc the Habs Fan »

Like Beard said, it's unbelievably random. There's almost no point in paying a big price for star players with the 2.0 sim engine. Teams that are supposed to be awful make the playoffs. Teams that on paper should get 110 points can end up with 88 points and miss the playoffs.

One year in our league with the 2.0, Alex Steen won the Rocket Trophy and Tyler Toffoli won the Art Ross Trophy...
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BeardCommish
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Re: Tips for engine 2.0

Post by BeardCommish »

^^ That's not what I said lol. I said it has an element of randomness, not that it's "unbelievably random".

If all players want is straight fantasy hockey, then sure, maybe 2.0 won't be your bag. But if you want something somewhat realistic to what NHL play is like, while maintaining a simulation league style of game, then to me, 2.0 is the way to go.

How you build a team is just as important, if not more so, than amassing an All-Star team. It's also in how the league settings are set, too.
jroenick2797
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Re: Tips for engine 2.0

Post by jroenick2797 »

BeardCommish wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 1:37 pm ^^ That's not what I said lol. I said it has an element of randomness, not that it's "unbelievably random".

If all players want is straight fantasy hockey, then sure, maybe 2.0 won't be your bag. But if you want something somewhat realistic to what NHL play is like, while maintaining a simulation league style of game, then to me, 2.0 is the way to go.

How you build a team is just as important, if not more so, than amassing an All-Star team. It's also in how the league settings are set, too.
Any sim engine which results in the player with the 2nd best overall rating in the league not being able to crack 75 pts in any season is not realistic. That's what we dealt with in our league.

Some surprises, sure... but when more star players produce like 4th liners than not every single year, that's not "a few surprises like in real life", that's unbelievable randomness.
BeardCommish
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Re: Tips for engine 2.0

Post by BeardCommish »

jroenick2797 wrote: Sun Sep 11, 2022 3:52 pm
Any sim engine which results in the player with the 2nd best overall rating in the league not being able to crack 75 pts in any season is not realistic. That's what we dealt with in our league.

Some surprises, sure... but when more star players produce like 4th liners than not every single year, that's not "a few surprises like in real life", that's unbelievable randomness.
That's the rest of your settings and everyone else's adherence (or lack thereof) to team strategies and lines submissions more than "the simulator" being at fault.

I don't know why or how I get to be the ultimate defender of 2.0 lol, but it sounds to me like either the team playing the 2nd best player didn't know what to do with him, put him in poor positions to excel, or the settings aren't turned properly. Believe me, it took a lot for us to get it to a good point. Lots of testing and frankly, trial and error.

But in real life, you're not going to see the same Top 5 scorers every single year. You definitely aren't going to see the same Top 5 goalies every year. The best are generally in the running, but it's not always the same exact people up there year in and year out.
ESHL.ca
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Re: Tips for engine 2.0

Post by ESHL.ca »

BeardCommish wrote: Sun Sep 11, 2022 11:34 pm
jroenick2797 wrote: Sun Sep 11, 2022 3:52 pm
Any sim engine which results in the player with the 2nd best overall rating in the league not being able to crack 75 pts in any season is not realistic. That's what we dealt with in our league.

Some surprises, sure... but when more star players produce like 4th liners than not every single year, that's not "a few surprises like in real life", that's unbelievable randomness.
That's the rest of your settings and everyone else's adherence (or lack thereof) to team strategies and lines submissions more than "the simulator" being at fault.

I don't know why or how I get to be the ultimate defender of 2.0 lol, but it sounds to me like either the team playing the 2nd best player didn't know what to do with him, put him in poor positions to excel, or the settings aren't turned properly. Believe me, it took a lot for us to get it to a good point. Lots of testing and frankly, trial and error.

But in real life, you're not going to see the same Top 5 scorers every single year. You definitely aren't going to see the same Top 5 goalies every year. The best are generally in the running, but it's not always the same exact people up there year in and year out.
I went on your website by curiosity and I saw McDavid with 76pts in 81gp being the 52nd ranked player in the league. Konecny (93) E.Staal(89) Pageau Mittlelstadt and more all finish above him. Thats not realistic and far from NHL realism. Sure 2.0 is not hot garbage like 2.1 is, but Its not as much realistic as 1.5.
BeardCommish
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Re: Tips for engine 2.0

Post by BeardCommish »

ESHL.ca wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 6:16 am I went on your website by curiosity and I saw McDavid with 76pts in 81gp being the 52nd ranked player in the league. Konecny (93) E.Staal(89) Pageau Mittlelstadt and more all finish above him. Thats not realistic and far from NHL realism. Sure 2.0 is not hot garbage like 2.1 is, but Its not as much realistic as 1.5.
That was Year 2 of a sim-results-based rerate league. We switched to NHL based this offseason and 'reset' the league, basically. But the first two seasons were based on sim stats, not the NHL.

I haven't used 1.5 in a long time, but I think if memory serves, the lack of all of the options available, to me, leaves it a little less desirable than 2.0.

Just my opinion, anyway, so take it for whatever it may be worth.
jroenick2797
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Re: Tips for engine 2.0

Post by jroenick2797 »

BeardCommish wrote: Sun Sep 11, 2022 11:34 pm
jroenick2797 wrote: Sun Sep 11, 2022 3:52 pm
Any sim engine which results in the player with the 2nd best overall rating in the league not being able to crack 75 pts in any season is not realistic. That's what we dealt with in our league.

Some surprises, sure... but when more star players produce like 4th liners than not every single year, that's not "a few surprises like in real life", that's unbelievable randomness.
That's the rest of your settings and everyone else's adherence (or lack thereof) to team strategies and lines submissions more than "the simulator" being at fault.

I don't know why or how I get to be the ultimate defender of 2.0 lol, but it sounds to me like either the team playing the 2nd best player didn't know what to do with him, put him in poor positions to excel, or the settings aren't turned properly. Believe me, it took a lot for us to get it to a good point. Lots of testing and frankly, trial and error.

But in real life, you're not going to see the same Top 5 scorers every single year. You definitely aren't going to see the same Top 5 goalies every year. The best are generally in the running, but it's not always the same exact people up there year in and year out.
That was one example...we routinely saw guys like Ty Rattie and Louis Domingue outperform names like Stamkos, Kovalchuk and Price. It's a yearly thing and isn't isolated to a specific GM.

As for settings, if every little thing needs to be tweaked just right before getting a realistic result, that's not a sim engine that's meant to be realistic; it's meant to have a certain degree of (and I would argue too much) randomness.

We've been using 1.5 for the last 3 seasons and while the specific names at the top of the leaderboards do in fact change, the top 5% of players still are in the running every year (ie the top 5 rated players will be somewhere in the top 30-40 in scoring, barring injury). On top of that, so far we've only had a handful of players in 3+ seasons whose ratings are 4th line caliber crack the 50 point mark. And that was without much tweaking; what we did do was mostly related to penalties & fighting. Before that, we literally had the 35-40th rated goalie win a Hart Trophy and multiple Vezinas, as well as 20-25th rated teams win Cups. It was too much.

I do agree losing some of the advanced stats like GA and TA sucked, but I'd rather have good teams be good and bad teams be bad, generally speaking. A surprise here and there is fine, but when you put all the time & effort to build a roster which becomes a roll of the dice in the end, not my jam. There's just no benefit to drafting well, or buying/selling at the deadline, etc. Just fill your roster with bodies and hope for the best at that point.

That to me is a realistic result. But hey, if 2.0 works for ya, thats great... just didnt work well for us.
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