Realism issues

[Rovy]

http://www.glidingeagle.com/geha/year5/ ... oster.html

It should also be noted this is the STRONGEST defence (albeit not super strong, there ARE teams with worse defence, including past OTT teams) my team has had in the past 4 years.

[NNHL-Commish]

Hi !

I really do think like Simon. There so much settings you can change to achieve what you want (settings (simulation and others), ratings, coaching, teamates, strategy) and so much things that can interfere with those like other team strategy and line up that you gotta work and do lot of test seasons to arrive at a good realism. Even when you think you got it and the season is underway, you got to make some minor adjustment. In my league the best goalies had some difficulties in the first month or so of the season, but a few changes and they are back where they should be ( http://www.newnhl.net/STHS/Output/NNHL1 ... aders.html ).

If you take the Save %, and if we take the NHL as a base to compare. The exemple of Huet in the past few years, that had, or battle, for the best Save % of the league demonstrate that an average goalie (above average but Huet is no Brodeur) can have good numbers. And Brodeur, who faces less shots can go down the list to 10th or less.

So, try working with all your settings, that's the only way to get some realism. There's one thing that the STHS give us commish and president, is the ability to make the kind of league we want and to achieve it, all it's needed, is a little work from our part.

Hope this can help you !!!

[hockey_purist]

i see a couple of things that come to mind:

1. not only does brodeur's backup have a better SK than him, so do a lot of the other backups in the league (not only better than brodeur but also better than their own starter)

2. many of the backups have very close ST and SZ ratings to the starters but once you look at the AG to RT ratings left to right, the starters' ratings are usually much higher than the backups. so based on 1 and 2, i can see why the backups are better.

3. if brodeur is the best goalie in the league (by OV), then he is only the 60th best player in the league. there ae 59 other players (forwards and defensemen) that are better than him who is supposed to be the best goalie in the league. there are a lot of forwards with SC higher than 80 and a decent amount with 90 or above.

i would be interested to see where the shot and goal sliders are for this league and what the stats are for the rest of the goalies. looking at the goalies as a group, i would be surprised to see any of them with a GAA under 2.50 and a save percentage over .900. who is the best goalie in the league stats wise? based on the ratings of the goalies, i would expect ryan miller to be at or near the top.

[Kitsune]

1. SK is screwy with this sim - 90% of players tend to drop, and only 10% manage to go up in end of season rerates - what your seeing here is 4 seasons worth of rerates.

2. AG / RT should be higher, and the fact ST and SZ are similiar should have 0 impact, those just factor how much of the net he takes up and strength is well strength, how strong he is etc. AG / RT is agility and reaction time, the higher that is, the more saves they should theoritcally make.

3. Goalies OV are skewed thanks to a change in there OV Formula in the early goings of 0.9.x series (I believe it was around 0.9.2). To properly compare goalie OV to forward/defense OV, you need to add 7-8 ov to it.

4. the shots have ranged from 38 to 40, and goals from 19 to 70 with no change in goal scoring. Hows that for amazing? Last season we had goalies in the .900 range and GAA for the top goalies around 2.3-2.5. That with shots at 38 and goals at 72. This season, no matter what I try it doesnt have much affect - the only thing different is the upgrade to 1.0.9/1.1.0 . And yep, I had goals at 19 and shots at 38 at one point - and one team still managed to get 9 goals! The top goalie is Miikka Kiprusoff, Miller is 9th in save % and 4th in GAA.

And, if anyone wants to be a part of this league, I do have a team open! email me at geha(at)glidingeagle.com

[CNGHL Angus]

I think too you have to keep in mind that you only have 12 teams in your league. If the ratings you've used are Dynamic (i.e. they change throughout the course of the season), you best shooters are concentrated into a much smaller group of players Brodeur faces. Your best shooters seem to be scoring freely so Brodeur's chances of making saves diminishes greatly compared to a 30 team league. In a 30 team league, he's going to see three times as many unskilled 3rd and 4th liners. He would fare a lot better having less pure snipers shooting at him so much.

In our 20 team league, we've turned off the Pro Stats Change Active feature to help keep our ratings consistent through out the season.

[Kitsune]

I think too you have to keep in mind that you only have 12 teams in your league. If the ratings you've used are Dynamic (i.e. they change throughout the course of the season), you best shooters are concentrated into a much smaller group of players Brodeur faces. Your best shooters seem to be scoring freely so Brodeur's chances of making saves diminishes greatly compared to a 30 team league. In a 30 team league, he's going to see three times as many unskilled 3rd and 4th liners. He would fare a lot better having less pure snipers shooting at him so much.

In our 20 team league, we've turned off the Pro Stats Change Active feature to help keep our ratings consistent through out the season.

Thats the thing though - we dont have pro stats active at all, what I ment by four seasons worth of rerates is four seasons of end of season rerates, not in season rerates.

[Rovy]

i see a couple of things that come to mind:

If you take the Save %, and if we take the NHL as a base to compare. The exemple of Huet in the past few years, that had, or battle, for the best Save % of the league demonstrate that an average goalie (above average but Huet is no Brodeur) can have good numbers. And Brodeur, who faces less shots can go down the list to 10th or less.

So, try working with all your settings, that's the only way to get some realism. There's one thing that the STHS give us commish and president, is the ability to make the kind of league we want and to achieve it, all it's needed, is a little work from our part.

Hope this can help you !!!

Who's settings? Team or league? Because if it's the league settings, then the league wide should have the same results.

You point out what I'm saying. Yes, an average goalie can have a good year. I'm not arguing that. But you've said Brodeur can go down the list to 10th. Well, in this league, Brodeur's going down to the BOTTOM of the list (almost). However, in the NHL, Brodeur and Luongo (being arguably the best goalies in the league) are consistantly top third in save %

[Rovy]

i see a couple of things that come to mind:

1. not only does brodeur's backup have a better SK than him, so do a lot of the other backups in the league (not only better than brodeur but also better than their own starter)

2. many of the backups have very close ST and SZ ratings to the starters but once you look at the AG to RT ratings left to right, the starters' ratings are usually much higher than the backups. so based on 1 and 2, i can see why the backups are better.

3. if brodeur is the best goalie in the league (by OV), then he is only the 60th best player in the league. there ae 59 other players (forwards and defensemen) that are better than him who is supposed to be the best goalie in the league. there are a lot of forwards with SC higher than 80 and a decent amount with 90 or above.

i would be interested to see where the shot and goal sliders are for this league and what the stats are for the rest of the goalies. looking at the goalies as a group, i would be surprised to see any of them with a GAA under 2.50 and a save percentage over .900. who is the best goalie in the league stats wise? based on the ratings of the goalies, i would expect ryan miller to be at or near the top.

Sliders have changed all season with what seemed, no impact. Goals slider has dropped about 60 points I believe.

You're correct that GAA is above 2.5 and % below .900, however that's not my issue. The issue is the OTHER starting (and some backup) goalies all have around the same number, with nowhere NEAR as many poor results as Brodeur. That's where my issue is.

I think too you have to keep in mind that you only have 12 teams in your league. If the ratings you've used are Dynamic (i.e. they change throughout the course of the season), you best shooters are concentrated into a much smaller group of players Brodeur faces. Your best shooters seem to be scoring freely so Brodeur's chances of making saves diminishes greatly compared to a 30 team league. In a 30 team league, he's going to see three times as many unskilled 3rd and 4th liners. He would fare a lot better having less pure snipers shooting at him so much.

In our 20 team league, we've turned off the Pro Stats Change Active feature to help keep our ratings consistent through out the season.

The league doesn't use dynamic ratings throughout the season. But I believe you're missing the point. You're correct that teams are stronger with a smaller league, but if your reason is correct, why are the other goalies not being lit up as consistancy?

[CNGHL Angus]

The league doesn't use dynamic ratings throughout the season. But I believe you're missing the point. You're correct that teams are stronger with a smaller league, but if your reason is correct, why are the other goalies not being lit up as consistancy?

I have this theory about Sim hockey. This is based on my experience in both FHL and STHS leagues where I've had strong players or teams that have performed miserably for whatever reason. My theory is that the Sim somehow finds a player or a team that it makes underachieve. In the NHL, there are players that inexplicably play well one season then seem to tank in others (hello Naslund?). My theory is that the Sim might select such players and have them just play poorly no matter who they play with. I had Kiprusoff one season on my team. He had one of the highest goalie ratings in our FHL league and he couldn't win or stop a beach ball. I had Lehtonen this season on my STHS team. Same thing. Overall, my STHS team looked solid but I couldn't win no matter what coach setting I used. In test Sims, the same team rocked and Lehtonen was one of the top goalies.

Maybe, just maybe, there is enough randomness to how the Sim juggles ratings and slider settings and opponents that poor results are a freakish statistical trend beyond any coding genius. Whatever causes such anomolies, I've learned to just live with them knowing next season I might just be on a really good cycle and start overachieving (like my current FHL team).

[hockey_purist]

has a parallel season been simmed to see if the same results happen with brodeur or even in a parallel sim to trade him to another team to see if he dominates like he is supposed to or if the same results happen?

i move the slider 10 pts higher on goals and get anywhere from .75 to 1 goal a game more on 1.0.9 beta version 2. if i move the shots slider 5 to 10 pts higher, i get around 6-8 shots more per team per game. its hard to imagine if your slider is moving 60 pts and you are getting the same results, but i guess it can happen

[Kitsune]

Yep, multiple test seasons have been run, and Brodeur tends to do bad / no where near the top in all of them. Although whats funny is that Brodeur is putting up spectacular stats now thats hes been traded. What this tells me is that Chemistry is playing a HUGE role with things.

[Rovy]

Yep, multiple test seasons have been run, and Brodeur tends to do bad / no where near the top in all of them. Although whats funny is that Brodeur is putting up spectacular stats now thats hes been traded. What this tells me is that Chemistry is playing a HUGE role with things.

Which brings back my original point. I said that goaltending stats seems to be based on the TEAM and not skill, and this is an issue. This isn't anywhere near realistic.


I see Simon's not had anything to say in a couple days now. I'm guessing he hopes if he just ignores this problem, it'll go away on its own?

[Job]

Morale could be another problem if it is set to high, and Brodeur's morale has dropped due to a couple of bad performances.

[Kitsune]

Morale could be another problem if it is set to high, and Brodeur's morale has dropped due to a couple of bad performances.

Heh, I learnt that lesson from one of my test leagues (its posted somewhere in this section, a couple pages back near the beginning). Morale is set at 25 for the league ......

[Rovy]

Don't even get me started on Morale.

It's implemented so poorly in this simulator. It should fluctuate MUCH more quickly. A good stretch of games should have a morale greater than 50, while a bad stretch of games should have a morale lower than 50.

Team morale is the easiest way to show this. A team winning a decent amount of their first 30 games, before losing 5 in a row will still have a high morale. Conversely, a team who's struggled all year, before going on a winning streak will have a lower morale, despite the streak.


Not to mention that morale should NEVER have as big an effect on veterains like Brodeur. He's not going to become an emotional baby because he had 1 or 2 bad games.

In all fairness, the morale issue COULD have solved the issue, but the minute Brodeur began playing for a different team, he began playing to his expected level.