I am back from my holiday and I saw version 9.11 has been released. As the testing person I am I ran a bunch load of tests. They will be below as I have a few questions related to building players (for the player creator).
How do I create first line offensive defensemen that don't suck in defense by relying on the offense part of their game? There are many player out there like this in the NHL. While they aren't great defensively they are a powerful offense force with great skills. Generally always + players because of their offense.
here is my offensive defense man
Jonathan Lafleur D 47 37 95 87 77 96 77 95 40 99 95 66 80 92 99 97 43 79
with only DF 66 he isn't a shutdown defenseman at all but those offense skills should make him hitting first line pairing all the time. But with all my simulations and is has been over 30 seasons now with ver 9.11 (lots more with 9.10) that this player is still 80% of the time a - player. I have even played with pairings, high DF players with good skills
Tony Owens D 60 48 77 74 81 82 66 73 46 63 67 84 49 88 75 83 42 71
or more offense
Espen Blackberg D 47 42 77 74 61 83 68 72 21 70 73 55 32 74 77 71 45 65
or lower overall
Walter Cavanaugh D 71 54 62 66 85 75 32 62 37 60 57 74 76 69 77 61 30 65
The player seems to stay the same sort of output and +/- no matter who I put with them for a season. So what is the best way to create a 1st defenseman who will see PP but not much PK and remains a plus player on average? I am having real problems in this area.
Another problem is making 4th line goons. I just can't get them as the main fighter on the team unless they are pulling top 6 minutes.
Jason Nordin LW 80 99 65 61 77 62 34 57 50 63 59 69 24 63 68 55 44 60
I have played around and it seems I have to have CK high to get them to fight more but still he does less or the same amount of fighting as
Berg Falkberg RW 49 55 79 95 76 83 82 77 56 70 85 67 86 76 83 86 42 74
but Falkberg get top line minutes.
I have a few others that I am having problems with but these are the main two. I have played with their stats and I just can't build these styles of players. How do I do it?
9.11 test with questions
Re: 9.11 test with questions
I have been testing a few more things.
I used my setup of all teams being the same and removing all the extra's that could add randomness. Then I made one team "Aryan Racers" have each member's stats increased by 10%.
So now they are by far the best team in the league. It isn't often you will have a team that is 10% better than every team it plays.
Here are the three seasons I simmed.
http://wwihl.com/data/GHL-Index.html
http://wwihl.com/data/racers/WWIHLa-Index.html
http://wwihl.com/data/racers1/WWIHLa-Index.html
The Aryan Racers are the best team by far. Take a look at their roster. Now look at the standings of the season. The Racers only made the playoffs once and only then just made them. If you look in the individual leaders and you will find it a rare thing to see and player from the Racers leading the league in something. This is coming from a team where everyone is better at everything.
Please take a look and give me your thoughts. My only guess is that better players are being nerfed somehow but that is only a guess after all. Anyone with any better insights?
edit: I did notice that shooting % remains the same for player with 85 SC and 65 SC if they are on the first line. Shouldn't a 85 SC guy have a much better shooting % than a lower SC guy?
I used my setup of all teams being the same and removing all the extra's that could add randomness. Then I made one team "Aryan Racers" have each member's stats increased by 10%.
So now they are by far the best team in the league. It isn't often you will have a team that is 10% better than every team it plays.
Here are the three seasons I simmed.
http://wwihl.com/data/GHL-Index.html
http://wwihl.com/data/racers/WWIHLa-Index.html
http://wwihl.com/data/racers1/WWIHLa-Index.html
The Aryan Racers are the best team by far. Take a look at their roster. Now look at the standings of the season. The Racers only made the playoffs once and only then just made them. If you look in the individual leaders and you will find it a rare thing to see and player from the Racers leading the league in something. This is coming from a team where everyone is better at everything.
Please take a look and give me your thoughts. My only guess is that better players are being nerfed somehow but that is only a guess after all. Anyone with any better insights?
edit: I did notice that shooting % remains the same for player with 85 SC and 65 SC if they are on the first line. Shouldn't a 85 SC guy have a much better shooting % than a lower SC guy?
Re: 9.11 test with questions
try to put 90+ ratings to this goalie Tony Maltby. And resim a full season.
For the shooting%, Simon confirmed to me earlier that yes, a 85SC should have a better shooting% then a 65SC.
here's my rating for my best offensive dmen:
Nicklas Lidstrom 62 45 89 77 50 90 90 85 35 79 76 88 74 99 99
Tomas Kaberle 59 40 92 84 62 95 95 83 35 90 64 51 62 76 79
Dennis Wideman 70 45 88 69 49 92 92 84 35 75 79 87 76 21 33
Scott Niedermayer 69 45 75 80 53 93 93 88 35 79 81 91 78 99 99
For the shooting%, Simon confirmed to me earlier that yes, a 85SC should have a better shooting% then a 65SC.
here's my rating for my best offensive dmen:
Nicklas Lidstrom 62 45 89 77 50 90 90 85 35 79 76 88 74 99 99
Tomas Kaberle 59 40 92 84 62 95 95 83 35 90 64 51 62 76 79
Dennis Wideman 70 45 88 69 49 92 92 84 35 75 79 87 76 21 33
Scott Niedermayer 69 45 75 80 53 93 93 88 35 79 81 91 78 99 99
Re: 9.11 test with questions
I feel your pain, too.
We haven't switched to V2 yet in our completely made-up league (only false names and skills we created). But our junior league has been simmed on it for 2 seasons now.
My offensive D-men suddently became by far the best players in the league. My best offensive guys now became regular jocks. And my goons now became ordinary guys, while my power forwards on the top lines are the guys gunning for 300+ PIMs per season.
My best offensive rearguards had high PH, solid SC and some decent DF.
We haven't switched to V2 yet in our completely made-up league (only false names and skills we created). But our junior league has been simmed on it for 2 seasons now.
My offensive D-men suddently became by far the best players in the league. My best offensive guys now became regular jocks. And my goons now became ordinary guys, while my power forwards on the top lines are the guys gunning for 300+ PIMs per season.
My best offensive rearguards had high PH, solid SC and some decent DF.
Re: 9.11 test with questions
Foo,
I did two test season with Tony Maltby stats on the Racers increased to the 90's range. The Racers either came 1st and then 2nd overall in the conference. Maltby stats however where much like the other goalies. Not better but upper middle. I find that strange as he is a ton better than everyone and on the best team.
On a side note, the Racers are now a + team. So even though the goalie didn't stop more, the team was able to score more.
Here is a link of the two seasons.
http://wwihl.com/data/OutputG/GHL-Index.html
http://wwihl.com/data/OutputG1/GHL-Index.html
How does Kaberle come out in your tests? Is he ever a + player or many a - player even on good D teams?
QSHL,
I have seen that too. My only answer to the fighting problem is dont have guys that can fight on the top lines. Power forwards need to have high checking and low (in 50's at max) fighting. If they have more they will spend a lot of the time in the box. I can't get goons to work at all yet. Something is preventing them going out to be the first fighter if things are getting tough. Mainly my guys who have the most minutes fight more. It is really tricky to balance out. Developing prospects if they have high FG skill is a nightmare.
I have seen that in my tests that Offense D with okay DF do rule. In my test the best player is my offensive D. I might make a tests where I knock him down and make another player the best over all. ....
tests lol
I did two test season with Tony Maltby stats on the Racers increased to the 90's range. The Racers either came 1st and then 2nd overall in the conference. Maltby stats however where much like the other goalies. Not better but upper middle. I find that strange as he is a ton better than everyone and on the best team.
On a side note, the Racers are now a + team. So even though the goalie didn't stop more, the team was able to score more.
Here is a link of the two seasons.
http://wwihl.com/data/OutputG/GHL-Index.html
http://wwihl.com/data/OutputG1/GHL-Index.html
How does Kaberle come out in your tests? Is he ever a + player or many a - player even on good D teams?
QSHL,
I have seen that too. My only answer to the fighting problem is dont have guys that can fight on the top lines. Power forwards need to have high checking and low (in 50's at max) fighting. If they have more they will spend a lot of the time in the box. I can't get goons to work at all yet. Something is preventing them going out to be the first fighter if things are getting tough. Mainly my guys who have the most minutes fight more. It is really tricky to balance out. Developing prospects if they have high FG skill is a nightmare.
I have seen that in my tests that Offense D with okay DF do rule. In my test the best player is my offensive D. I might make a tests where I knock him down and make another player the best over all. ....
tests lolRe: 9.11 test with questions
For Kaberle, I did not test him on poor Defensive team.
He finished in the + very often teaming up with:
Nick Kronwall 76 45 84 87 48 93 93 80 35 78 67 74 63 49 31
OR
Tyler Myers 74 37 92 74 99 95 95 77 35 73 71 70 70 2 2 3
I think offensive D-men are better where they're paired with an other offensive D-man who has much Defensive ratings like Myers and Kronwall.
He finished in the + very often teaming up with:
Nick Kronwall 76 45 84 87 48 93 93 80 35 78 67 74 63 49 31
OR
Tyler Myers 74 37 92 74 99 95 95 77 35 73 71 70 70 2 2 3
I think offensive D-men are better where they're paired with an other offensive D-man who has much Defensive ratings like Myers and Kronwall.
Re: 9.11 test with questions
I agree. It seems you need to have a guy with at least 70's in PA,SC and DF stat if the offense D man is to work. Having a high DF (80's) but in the lower in the 60's PA and SC doesn't seems to work well at all. PH doesn't seem to help that much. It is a shame really as I know many good Off D paired with good Def D.
This has really thrown a little jam in the works for me. How do you create great Def D men that play on the first unit with an Off D but at the same time not having the skills to see much power play time. To me it seems it can't be done unless you have a high skilled league where low 70's are needed for 3rd and 4th liners. Any ideas how to create this?
This has really thrown a little jam in the works for me. How do you create great Def D men that play on the first unit with an Off D but at the same time not having the skills to see much power play time. To me it seems it can't be done unless you have a high skilled league where low 70's are needed for 3rd and 4th liners. Any ideas how to create this?
Re: 9.11 test with questions
Skating rating contribute to it, but again, defensive D-men are rarely high in this department.
I really don't know..
For example playing on the same team:
Andrej Meszaros: 76 45 83 90 70 59 59 67 35 61 58 86 58 34 33
AND
Robyn Regehr: 80 72 77 74 76 87 87 57 35 47 50 83 50 47 72
Meszaros clearly had a better season then Regehr with a +20 against a +3, and avereging a 20:43 ice time against a 19:34 a game, Meszaros played on PP, Regehr didn'T.
Meszaros got better ratings, especialy in SK (+16) AND PH (+10). So I think those two ratings are the key to make a Defensive D-man, without having high scoring hability (Meszaros finish 12PTS in 35 games, Regehr 6PTS in 44)
I really don't know..
For example playing on the same team:
Andrej Meszaros: 76 45 83 90 70 59 59 67 35 61 58 86 58 34 33
AND
Robyn Regehr: 80 72 77 74 76 87 87 57 35 47 50 83 50 47 72
Meszaros clearly had a better season then Regehr with a +20 against a +3, and avereging a 20:43 ice time against a 19:34 a game, Meszaros played on PP, Regehr didn'T.
Meszaros got better ratings, especialy in SK (+16) AND PH (+10). So I think those two ratings are the key to make a Defensive D-man, without having high scoring hability (Meszaros finish 12PTS in 35 games, Regehr 6PTS in 44)
Re: 9.11 test with questions
How many sim tests did you do with the same rosters? Did the players remain close to the same values? I would love to know as it might be that the sim is only set up more for NHL style rosters.
Re: 9.11 test with questions
still playing around but J just cant seem to create a forward who is a generational talent. I can put values in but often they still won't lead the league in scoring.
How do i create (stats say for a Mario Lemieux) where he will pretty much lead the league in scoring unless he is injured? I have played around time and time again and I just can't do it.
How do i create (stats say for a Mario Lemieux) where he will pretty much lead the league in scoring unless he is injured? I have played around time and time again and I just can't do it.
Re: 9.11 test with questions
Well I'll try this setting of ratings for sure at first:
99SK 99ST 99DI 99PH 99PA 75SC
if we follow what Simon said, a 99PA and a 99 SC will never be on the lead in scoring, but maybe this kind of ratings will help. Hope a 75SC guy with this kind of ratings can score 50 goals.... that I did not test.
99SK 99ST 99DI 99PH 99PA 75SC
if we follow what Simon said, a 99PA and a 99 SC will never be on the lead in scoring, but maybe this kind of ratings will help. Hope a 75SC guy with this kind of ratings can score 50 goals.... that I did not test.
Re: 9.11 test with questions
Well done the test.
99 in the stats and 75 in SC.
In my set up he wasn't the top scoring player. Not even close. An offensive defenseman had more points. Not only that, He was not even in the top 10 in scoring. 2 other first line centers with much lower stats in everything had more points than he did. Basically the stats did pretty much nothing.
To me this is something that needs to dealt with. Star players like these cost a ton to either keep or trade for. If they have little hope of preforming then what is the point of them? Right now I see very little difference if a player is rated about 10 points apart in a stat.
here is the season I ran.
http://www.wwihl.com/data/star/WWIHLa-Index.html
Look it over and tell me what you think.
edit: To help you know what you are looking for
Darryl KellyA is the star player. Darryl KellyB to Darryl KellyG are all the same and rated much lower in all stats. They are all first line centers with the same wingers and defense. Darryl KellyA should blow everyone out of the water and improve the players around him. He is with goal scorers as well. So that 99 in PA should be working nicely. You will notice that 2 other lower rated Darryl Kelly's scored more points than Darryl KellyA, you will also see Darryl Kelly's that have more assist or goals as well.
for the lazy have a look for Darryl KellyA name here. See where he is. Not the best forward by a long shot.
http://www.wwihl.com/data/star/WWIHLa-P ... aders.html
Edit 2:
I did notice while looking through the csv that KellyA did give out about x2 of the amount of giverways and he missed the net a lot more. Also i noticed that the OV wasn't the same for each same player. It is at time 1 point different than all the other guys with the same stats and name.
I added the csv file so you can see yourself.
http://www.wwihl.com/data/star/WWIHLa-Players.csv
99 in the stats and 75 in SC.
In my set up he wasn't the top scoring player. Not even close. An offensive defenseman had more points. Not only that, He was not even in the top 10 in scoring. 2 other first line centers with much lower stats in everything had more points than he did. Basically the stats did pretty much nothing.
To me this is something that needs to dealt with. Star players like these cost a ton to either keep or trade for. If they have little hope of preforming then what is the point of them? Right now I see very little difference if a player is rated about 10 points apart in a stat.
here is the season I ran.
http://www.wwihl.com/data/star/WWIHLa-Index.html
Look it over and tell me what you think.
edit: To help you know what you are looking for
Darryl KellyA is the star player. Darryl KellyB to Darryl KellyG are all the same and rated much lower in all stats. They are all first line centers with the same wingers and defense. Darryl KellyA should blow everyone out of the water and improve the players around him. He is with goal scorers as well. So that 99 in PA should be working nicely. You will notice that 2 other lower rated Darryl Kelly's scored more points than Darryl KellyA, you will also see Darryl Kelly's that have more assist or goals as well.
for the lazy have a look for Darryl KellyA name here. See where he is. Not the best forward by a long shot.
http://www.wwihl.com/data/star/WWIHLa-P ... aders.html
Edit 2:
I did notice while looking through the csv that KellyA did give out about x2 of the amount of giverways and he missed the net a lot more. Also i noticed that the OV wasn't the same for each same player. It is at time 1 point different than all the other guys with the same stats and name.
I added the csv file so you can see yourself.
http://www.wwihl.com/data/star/WWIHLa-Players.csv
Re: 9.11 test with questions
Ran the test again. Better but still not what is expected. He was the top scoring center this time and the second top forward. A guy with rating in the 70's and a few higher beat him. Of course offensive defenseman outscored him by a mile. Darryl KellyA 59 points ... Jonathan LafleurM 80 points!! Oh he failed to get his team into the playoffs. Not much use he is!?
http://www.wwihl.com/data/star2/WWIHLa-Index.html
So highly skilled centers are not the way to go it seems.
http://www.wwihl.com/data/star2/WWIHLa-Index.html
So highly skilled centers are not the way to go it seems.
Re: 9.11 test with questions
give me your sliders option, I'll check with mine and do testing with it.
I had this issue with D-men with all the STHS versions, so I droped each PA and SC ratings maximum by 5. Best forwards have 99 and best d-men have 94 max.
direct results: no D in the top 20 in points leaders.
I had this issue with D-men with all the STHS versions, so I droped each PA and SC ratings maximum by 5. Best forwards have 99 and best d-men have 94 max.
direct results: no D in the top 20 in points leaders.
Re: 9.11 test with questions
I have the sliders all set at the defaults. If you want I can send you the saved game file so you can test what ever you want as well. I have lots of different versions so if you see a test here and you would like that file let me know.
I lowered the pa and sc of the main defenseman by 5 in each stat. So now it was PA 95 and SC 90. The defenseman still won in each test (scoring at 45, 65, 85). My star player who was still in there never came out as the top forward once sometime down a bit on the top scorers. If you want to see the results I can upload them .. just ask.
It seems that a player with SK 99, ST 99, EN 99, PH99, PA99, SC75 can not be the top scorer in the league even if he is surrounded by guys that can score goals. The higher ranked player didn't even make those around him better.
I have lots of different versions so if you see a test here and you would like that file let me know.I lowered the pa and sc of the main defenseman by 5 in each stat. So now it was PA 95 and SC 90. The defenseman still won in each test (scoring at 45, 65, 85). My star player who was still in there never came out as the top forward once sometime down a bit on the top scorers. If you want to see the results I can upload them .. just ask.
It seems that a player with SK 99, ST 99, EN 99, PH99, PA99, SC75 can not be the top scorer in the league even if he is surrounded by guys that can score goals. The higher ranked player didn't even make those around him better.