9.11 test with questions

[Foo]

Something's really wrong with PRO sim cause in the Farm, dominant player are really the best players on the ice.

I talk about 60-65 offensive rated players who plays against 45-55 offensive rated players.

Peter Mueller in my Fram league scored 18 goals in 18 games, 34 points. He should be clearly in the top players.

So, the problem is really for top PRO players rated 90+ competing against 70-85 rated players. They should be as dominant then Mueller in the Farm I think but it's not the case.

[jwr38]

I have had the same feeling. The minor seem to give better results but I am unsure if that is just the low ratings the have. I have seen a few minor leaguers with low ratings lead the farm as well. I guess that is something else to test. I can't right now as I am building a RC airplane I want to go flying

[hfnhl]

In version one testing we had the same problem with defenseman scoring too high. We ended up lowering the PA rating by 30%, and the SC by 20 or 25%. It looks unusual but it simmed pretty well over the course of our actual season.

Individual Leaders:

http://www.hfnhl.com/2010/HFNHL1-IndividualLeaders.html

The top scoring Dmen were:
Nicklas Lidstrom (DET) 82 19-46-65
Zdeno Chara (STL) 82 17-48-65
Sheldon Souray (NYI) 81 20-43-63
Dion Phaneuf (CAR) 82 17-44-61

For the C position, and overall, scoring was a little down from our test seasons - but still within the boundaries of realism - with the correct players being near the top. Don't forget that teams and other players also factor in in our situation where no two teams are identical like the other testing going on.

Henrik Sedin (NAS) 82 39-45-84
Ryan Getzlaf (NJD) 76 21-62-83
Vincent Lecavalier (BOS) 82 35-48-83
Sidney Crosby (COL) 81 26-54-80
Shawn Horcoff (FLA) 82 27-50-77

Ratings:

http://www.hfnhl.com/2010/HFNHL1-TeamRoster.html

Of note: We created our own set of PA and SC ratings, and if a Dman was the 10th highest Assist getter, he got the 10th highest PA rating. We also pro-rate our ratings over a 3 year period, with the most recent year counting for 60%+ of the ratings. That was before we made the drastic reductions.

We are about to start testing on our new set of ratings for V2, and we'll be sure to forward them to Simon to publish.

[jwr38]

while I was creating the player creator I was referred to the the current nhl ratings. I tried to copy them in a player creator but I could get any results that have come close to working. Take a look at my player creator in the downloads area. It can create a large amount of styles of players. The problem is that it is only giving me very, very inconsistent results.

If I knew how to create power forwards, playmakers, snipers, grinders, goons, two way players in a range of abilities that work for version 2 then I could really hammer out some great rosters for my player creator. But since I have been given no guide lines all I seem to get is very poor simmed leagues. I can't even get star players to be the stars. I am at a loss what I can do to improve. I would love some instruction from Simon on how to a create a range of players that works with his sim but he refuses to answer any questions I have.

[payzan]

Quelqu'un pourrait traduire en anglais SVP ?

Je fais des test du simulateur aussi et le plus gros probleme que je remarques c'est que le premier trios de chaque equipes ou presque obtiennent tous 100 pts. que ce soit Crosby ou Matt Cullen c'est 100 pts. pourtant le calibre de Cullen VS Crosby est loin d'être comparable. Crosby 74 OV cullen 64 OV... on dirait que les joueurs du premier trios vont produirte au max, meme si les cotes sont beaucoup plus basse.

Avez-vous ca aussi dans vos test ?

[jwr38]

google translate is the best I can do for French.

http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_ur ... =Translate

My test shows that the top 3 forwards will get the most points. high ranked players most of the time are not the top scorers.

[bond007]

Quelqu'un pourrait traduire en anglais SVP ?

Je fais des test du simulateur aussi et le plus gros probleme que je remarques c'est que le premier trios de chaque equipes ou presque obtiennent tous 100 pts. que ce soit Crosby ou Matt Cullen c'est 100 pts. pourtant le calibre de Cullen VS Crosby est loin d'être comparable. Crosby 74 OV cullen 64 OV... on dirait que les joueurs du premier trios vont produirte au max, meme si les cotes sont beaucoup plus basse.

Avez-vous ca aussi dans vos test ?

En résumé, oui c'est pas mal ça. Il y a un certain nivellement qui fait que les superstar ressemblent à des joueurs ordinaires (s'ils ont un temps de glace comparable)

[Foo]

They are, but in the FARM !!

[payzan]

Salut Simon,

il n'y a pas quelques chose que tu peux faire ??
c'est le meme prog qui fait Pro et Farm?? pourquoi farm donne des résultat pas pire et le pro horrible ?

j'aimerais que tu te prononces a ce sujet, a savoir pourquoi le premier trios font tous 100 pts peut importe la force de ce dernier...

ca fait trois semaine que je fets des test intensifs, en manipulantles cotes de toutes les manieres, toujours le meme resultat... p-e que je comprend rien mais bon j'en suis à ma 9e saison avec ma ligue

[ynohtna]

You're not supposed to know the formula of the Sim, I don't think Simon will tell anyone that so he'll never help out on these topics

[jwr38]

You're not supposed to know the formula of the Sim, I don't think Simon will tell anyone that so he'll never help out on these topics

I don't want to know the forumla. I want to know how to get results that mimic the stats of the players. If I am having a hard time working it out how the players stats relate to the players performance in the sim then I am guessing that average GM's have no real idea either. Right now I am finding it next to impossible to create player types. You would expect a sim like this to be able to do this. I have no strong direction on how to create good consistent season stats. It is clear that using the full range of rating from 0 -99 for each player will not give very good results so I need some guide on how to create different types of players.

[ynohtna]

Yea I know what you're trying to do but to do this, you need the formula no?

Besides, for what you want, there's lots of variables, just because the players have the right stats doesn't mean they are the right guys to play together.

I'm glad to see it's not purely a numbers game because then everyone would know what kind of team to build. Having these variables, even randomness, should keep the game interesting with surprises.

Your power forward should be simply rated on specific attributes. Even in NHL, there's no perfect model for a power forward that will produce the same numbers all the time. There is a general consensus of specific attributes and then there's variable like the team they're on, opposition play style etc etc.

Anyways, just my thoughts, I'm not the sim creator or anything

[jwr38]

of course it should be based on the player around him. Put him with lower level players or player that don't match him that well and he should score less. But that is not the problem. PLEASE take a look at my tests. What I am trying to do is get good players to be good players even if they are paired with the same guys as all the others. I CAN NOT DO THIS.

for example I have 15 teams all with the same players. Same stats. then on the 16th team I have that same center but his stats have improved by 10 points each. This makes so much better than any other center in the game while not changing the style of player. He is just better at everything. Now remember he has the SAME wingers as all the other teams. We would expect that those wingers have good years next to a better center and that the center is the top scoring center in the game. In ALL my tests my top center never ONCE was the top scoring center. NOT ONCE! There were times where he was not even one of the top ten centers. (keep in mind I have moral, coaches and all other random stuff turned off).

It basically boils down to this. There is no point trading for a better player if you haven't got a high chance he will play better. I was in one league that ran version 2 and at the trade deadline no one was trading because it became pointless. From all my experience the stats mean pretty much nothing. It is what line you play them on that determines their output. In real life you find better players and you expect that your team should be better. In this sim currently you have a low chance that the better player will work unless he gets top ice time. Oh, if that player has any fighting skill and he is on the top line he will spend most of his time in the box. Power forwards with fighting skill or a mid fighting skill and high CK will spend a MUCH higher % in the box than players with lower fg and Ck ... di doesn't seem to limit it too much. So far I have done days of testing and yet to find a good balance ... or any balance for that matter. I need Simon's support or this software is pretty useless to me as I can't create any results that I would call fair to the GM's that I would manage.

The thing is Simon is not changing the engine. So I need to know how to create players what will work. I think that is a fair question. Pointless having a sim if I have no understanding how to create players that will give good results.

[ynohtna]

clearly I haven't had the same experience as you. after a frustrating time with a fhl league, i took a break 2 or 3 years before determining that i was comfortable with sths progression. I'm now just starting my 2nd season.

So I only have one season to evaluate and most my gm are new to sims. So far, it just seems the dmen score a bit high but i assumed it was just player ratings I used

[jwr38]

I have seen that with version 1 as well. Version 2 though works much differently. You will see.