Realism issues

[Rovy]

I assume this can ONLY be a bug, because I would never expect a simulator to be programmed so poorly.

I have the top rated goalie in a league I'm in, at 76 OV. NINE times out of 28, my goaltender has been pulled for having a save % BELOW .800

This is entirely unrealistic. No matter how BAD a goalie or a team is, they're never so consistantly bad. Especially after having a game with a save % above .900

To add more to this, goalies rated up to 10 points LOWER are putting up very similar numbers. My backup goalie has better numbers than my starter.

I'm in 2 leagues, and not ONE of them in ANY of the seasons has the best goalie put up anywhere NEAR the best numbers. This has GOT to be changed for any sort of realism to be seen from this simulator.

Realism should be the MOST IMPORTANT issue behind technical issues and bugs, and right now, this sim fails greatly in that category.

[SimonT]

Realism depend on the players rating you are using and the game option setting. This simulator offers a wider range of possibilities in the realism and it's up to you to find the setting that match what you want from the simulator.

[Rovy]

No matter the sliders or what, the BEST goalies should be the best goalies. Not a backup on one team. I've had the top rated goalie the past 4 years. 3 points above any other goalie. And yet he's been middle of the pack.

Even Luongo when he played in Florida was top third in save %, while goalies that would normally be backups would rarely break the top 30

[SimonT]

No matter the sliders or what, the BEST goalies should be the best goalies. Not a backup on one team. I've had the top rated goalie the past 4 years. 3 points above any other goalie. And yet he's been middle of the pack.

Even Luongo when he played in Florida was top third in save %, while goalies that would normally be backups would rarely break the top 30

And the best goalie will never have a poor year.
And the normal goalie will never have a wonderfull year.
And how good the team in front of the goalie is doesn't matter.

And the best players will never have a season of 50 points or less.
And the normal players will never have a season of 80 points or more.

P.S. If you want to complain, why don't suggest me way to improved the simulator. I offer a Full Play by Play to tell exactly what is happening in a game. Read them and tell me what you think is wrong.

[Rovy]

And the best goalie will never have a poor year.

I would say being pulled 9 times in 28 games is a VERY poor year, whether you're a good goalie, or a terrible one. And the last THREE times he was pulled on 17, 17, and 16 shots...

As for a way to improve it, well, I don't know. I can't see the code used and a way to improve it. All I can say is that it seems to me that goalies have VERY little effect on scoring (or lack of).

As for the play by play, it really doesn't say anything. Just so and so passes, takes a shot, scores. Doesn't say whether it was short side, goalie out of position, odd-man rush...

[ticklemypenguin]

I've also had problems with the best goalie not doing anything. It's almost like in my league, goalies don't matter worth a flying fu*k. I'm not looking for the best goalie to hold the best stats every season. Especially if he's behind a poor defense, but when guys that are 13ov less, 65OV goalies are pulling in better numbers(more shutouts AND higher SV% and lower GAA) just cause they have a slightly better offense or defense...there's a problem. I personally think there needs to be atleast a look at things, Simon. I love the sim, it's easy to work, lots of cool things...but I'm just asking since I did purchase the thing from you if you could maybe look into the goalie thing. Make goalies have a stronger impact...?

[starfrit]

Like Simon said, the ratings are not the only thing considered for the players performances. And btw, OV doesn't mean a thing since it is calculated with not only the players ratings, but the Sim settings. Ho, and there is this slight option for GM to put 5 points un defence. When I'm playing my backup, I do that. When I put my #1, I put more offence because there are better chances for my team to win anyway.

Try to look at all those factors because I don't have those kind of problems league wide, if you call it a problem...

[Rovy]

I've had DF at 5, I've had DF at 0. It makes no difference.

As for OV being useless, then get rid of it. Besides, it still doesn't change the fact that my BACKUP who's 10-15 points lower ACROSS THE BOARD is putting up better numbers than my starter with same settings. And it's also happening league wide. Not to mention category for category, the top goalie is rated top in just about every category, if not 2nd or 3rd.

[ticklemypenguin]

I guess realism doesn't matter to them.

[SimonT]

I guess realism doesn't matter to them.

That kind of comment is not welcome. I do have a regular day job and social life. Yesterday night, I went to see Montreal Canadians play and I didn't have time to answer your post.

And if you don't like the STHS and all you can do is complain without trying to offer solution, just don't buy it or don't play with league running it.

You want your goalie boost, then take Mass Edition and remove -10 to the SC for every player! Lower your goal game option, etc. I could go on and on and on. As I said before

Realism depend on the players rating you are using and the game option setting. This simulator offers a wider range of possibilities in the realism and it's up to you to find the setting that match what you want from the simulator.

That is my final answer.

P.S. I have my own league and you can see (http://lhn.simont.info/LHN2-Leaders.php) that my top goalie (Brodeur, Luongo, etc.) are my Leader because I found the setting that I want!

[Rovy]

I've checked your own league results. And they SUPPORT my claim. The top rated goalies (Legace, Luongo, Raycroft) are NOT in the top 11 in save% (which is the ONLY stat that should be used to judge a goalie's skill, GAA is a TEAM stat). If they're such good goalies, they should be at or near the top in save %.

As for removing 10 SC from every player, that still doesn't solve the problem of the best goalie NOT being the best goalie.

I've given as good of suggestion that I can without being able to see the coding. But to me, it appears that goalie stats are pretty pointless in determining save % and the outcome of the game. It appears to me that ANY goalie can be an all star, and often it depends on the team in front of him.

It also appears to me that a goalie facing LESS than 20 shots in a game has a 50-50 chance of playing VERY poorly in that game.

All I'm asking for is to have the BEST goalies in the league put up top 15% numbers.

[Kitsune]

I think the other issue is 1.0 .9. The changes made to the engine are extremely drastic - to the point where I had to drop the goals slider in my league by 60 points just to have things similiar, and up the shots slider by 2 ....

[CNGHL Angus]

We have had similar discussions in our league,

http://www.canuckscentral.com/cnghl/fil ... aders.html

Luongo has been described as having an awful season even though the team in front of him (his Defense in particular) are no slouches.

We use DVHL's ratings modified with our own SC and PA values (a weighted average based on the last three season's stats). We do have our Goals slider set higher relative to shots in order to get realistic (more NHL-like) scoring stats from our top forwards. In our 20 team league, I think our goalies are subjected to more accurate shooting and the goalie numbers suffer as a result. We felt this was the best balance going into our current season.

We tested settings where hardly anyone scored, the top shooter had 500+ shots and every goalie was a superstar. That was hardly realistic but it sure looked great to see top 10 goalies each with 1.xx GAA and .950+ SV%.

[Rovy]

Martin Brodeur (OTT), 17 saves from 21 shots - (0.810), 36:22 minutes
Martin Brodeur (OTT), 16 saves from 20 shots - (0.800), 51:40 minutes
Martin Brodeur (OTT), 13 saves from 16 shots - (0.813), W, 2-0-0, 60:00 minutes (not pulled)
Martin Brodeur (OTT), 16 saves from 20 shots - (0.800), 43:32 minutes
Martin Brodeur (OTT), 9 saves from 13 shots - (0.692), 19:58 minutes
Martin Brodeur (OTT), 19 saves from 23 shots - (0.826), L, 5-1-0, 59:01 minutes (not pulled)
Martin Brodeur (OTT), 10 saves from 14 shots - (0.714), 21:02 minutes
Martin Brodeur (OTT), 12 saves from 16 shots - (0.750), 38:34 minutes
Martin Brodeur (OTT), 13 saves from 16 shots - (0.813), W, 10-4-0, 60:00 minutes (not pulled)
Martin Brodeur (OTT), 3 saves from 7 shots - (0.429), L, 13-5-0, 18:56 minutes
Martin Brodeur (OTT), 13 saves from 17 shots - (0.765), 42:12 minutes
Martin Brodeur (OTT), 13 saves from 17 shots - (0.765), L, 14-7-0, 51:29 minutes
Martin Brodeur (OTT), 13 saves from 17 shots - (0.765), L, 14-8-0, 55:15 minutes

TEN times Brodeur was pulled. TEN TIMES. 13 times he played poorly, but was bailed out by offence. HOW can you think of this as realistic? How can the BEST goalie in the league be pulled TEN times? The WORST part? He's started only 30 games.

You say use sliders to get the results I want. Well, if it's the sliders, and Brodeur is one of the top goalies in the league, why are other goalies not CONSISTANTLY putting up sub .800 save %'s?

[CNGHL Angus]

Martin Brodeur (OTT), 17 saves from 21 shots - (0.810), 36:22 minutes
Martin Brodeur (OTT), 16 saves from 20 shots - (0.800), 51:40 minutes
Martin Brodeur (OTT), 13 saves from 16 shots - (0.813), W, 2-0-0, 60:00 minutes (not pulled)
Martin Brodeur (OTT), 16 saves from 20 shots - (0.800), 43:32 minutes
Martin Brodeur (OTT), 9 saves from 13 shots - (0.692), 19:58 minutes
Martin Brodeur (OTT), 19 saves from 23 shots - (0.826), L, 5-1-0, 59:01 minutes (not pulled)
Martin Brodeur (OTT), 10 saves from 14 shots - (0.714), 21:02 minutes
Martin Brodeur (OTT), 12 saves from 16 shots - (0.750), 38:34 minutes
Martin Brodeur (OTT), 13 saves from 16 shots - (0.813), W, 10-4-0, 60:00 minutes (not pulled)
Martin Brodeur (OTT), 3 saves from 7 shots - (0.429), L, 13-5-0, 18:56 minutes
Martin Brodeur (OTT), 13 saves from 17 shots - (0.765), 42:12 minutes
Martin Brodeur (OTT), 13 saves from 17 shots - (0.765), L, 14-7-0, 51:29 minutes
Martin Brodeur (OTT), 13 saves from 17 shots - (0.765), L, 14-8-0, 55:15 minutes

TEN times Brodeur was pulled. TEN TIMES. 13 times he played poorly, but was bailed out by offence. HOW can you think of this as realistic? How can the BEST goalie in the league be pulled TEN times? The WORST part? He's started only 30 games.

You say use sliders to get the results I want. Well, if it's the sliders, and Brodeur is one of the top goalies in the league, why are other goalies not CONSISTANTLY putting up sub .800 save %'s?

Please post a link to your league so we can see what OTT has in front of Brodeur.